22 comments

1. I’ll vouch for Mike. I have known him since I was a kid and his ministry was in its infacy. He was kind enough to engage in a one-on-one Bible study with me to explore/explain the Evangelical version of the plan of salvation, as well as numerous other tangents … Time very well spent.

   I encourage anyone curious about how Mormonism and Christianity relate (or don’t, as the case may be) to attend his classes. That includes you, Todd.

2. No thanks Todd. I grew up in Dallas and have had enough of Baptists “explaining” Mormonism from the ground up.

3. Mike is not a Baptist. He claims no denomination. He is a full time missionary who has done more homework on Mormonism than anyone else I know, including all of the Mormons I know – and living in southern Idaho, that’s a lot.

4. including all of the Mormons I know

   Well, we don’t know the same people then.

5. John, I would verify Tate’s comment about Mike’s diligence in his homework. Let his tribe increase in S. Idaho.

   In hanging around Mike, neither LDS nor non-LDS, will remain status quo. It makes me smile just thinking about it.

6. including all of the Mormons I know

   Well, we don’t know the same people then.

   And you don’t know Mike. 🙂
   Your loss.

7. Haven’t read the book, but DMI Dave’s review of it makes it look pretty good.

8. I have no idea how fair he is. I’m curious about the book although not enough to buy it. (I have too big a backlog of reading anyway)

   But I do know that for his points he sent a lot of emails to various people, including myself. The one thing I hope he gets is that there is a range of Mormon belief rather than trying to pigeon-hole Mormons.

9. re # 6, my guess is that it is highly improbable, tending to the impossible, that Mike has done more “homework” about Mormonism than people that I am lucky enough to count as family, friends, and acquaintances. For one thing, he’s not a Mormon, so no matter how much “homework” he does, a presentation by him about “Mormonism from the Ground Up” is going to be suspect.

10. Oh come on John. That’s just a bit unreasonable. Are you really saying that no one has anything to say about Mormons worth hearing if they aren’t Mormon themselves?

11. Tate and Todd–thank you for your votes of confidence. It is my hope and prayer that I can maintain them. John F.–you are as right to hold my teachings “suspect” (cf. 1 Th 5:21) as I am responsible to ensure their truthfulness (cf. Mt 12:36; Jas 3:1). Let the teaching and testing continue, albeit with “gentleness and respect” (1 Pe 3:15, NIV).

12. re # 10, no — you really understood that from my comment? It might help for you to read Tate’s comment that I was responding to, namely that “has done more homework on Mormonism than anyone else I know, including all of the Mormons I know – and living in southern Idaho, that’s a lot”.

13. Mike

    Considering you have done all this homework why have you quoted the Bible three times rather than demonstrated some knowledge at least by quoting the D&C or Book of Mormon?

    I have to share john f.’s belief. Talk is cheap. I’ve yet to find a Protestant that knows very much about what LDS really believe.

14. I have Doug. Several.

    And what’s wrong with a Protestant quoting the Bible? Especially considering he was quoting it to illustrate HIS OWN BELIEFS.

    Seriously guys, lighten up a touch. Once you’ve read his book or some of his other stuff, THEN you have my blessing on ragging on him as much as you like.

15. Re: 13–In answer to your question, Doug, I typically quote LDS Scripture and/or General Authorities when I am teaching LDS doctrine that is distinctly and uniquely LDS.

    As for my citations of NT Scripture above, scrutinizing doctrine and realizing our culpability to always teach and defend our beliefs in a Christ-like manner are tenets of faith that both Evangelicals and LDS hopefully share.

16. I have to take the side of those who doubt that a Protestant (Baptist or otherwise) will give a fair and accurate account of what the LDS people really believe. However, I plan on ordering the book to give it a chance. I would be thrilled to find such an account.

    As I am in Korea, I doubt that I will be able to attend Mr. Ghiglia’s presentation to give him the same chance – though I would if I were in the area. The fact that he quotes LDS scripture and General Authorities in no way comforts me. Many have done so and, almost without exception, have taken them out of context or, in the case of GA quotes, given them more authority than they ought to have.

    Unfortunately my extensive past experience is overwhelming. The errors, outright lies, and vitriol I have experienced since my conversion to the LDS faith many years ago has left me very suspicious of all. Korea is the most Christian nation on the Asian continent (since we consider Russia to be European) and Protestantism thrives (mostly Presbyterians and Assemblies of God rather than Baptists). I have endured many attempts by others to tell me what we believe and none, not one, has been fair while some have been intentionally misleading and others violent.

    I hope my Protestant brothers and sisters will forgive my lack of trust but it is born of experience. I am not without hope, however.

17. Hi MinJae,

    I served my mission in Japan and was often discouraged at the intensity of societal pressure placed on people who wanted to investigate the LDS faith. Of course, in 1990s Japan, it was secular pressure and not really religious.

    The explosion of Christianity in Korea has always been interesting to me. I’m sorry to hear that the Christianity there is taking such an aggressive and hostile form.

18. Seth,

    Actually, it was the Japanese that caused Christianity to be so popular in Korea. Everywhere else in Asia Christianity was the religion of Imperialism – in Korea Shinto was the religion of Imperialism and the American Christian missionaries were among the strongest supporters of the Korean independance movement after annexation by Japan in 1910.

    I was boarn in a Presbyterian home and my Grandfather was a minister. When I was baptized into the LDS faith I was beaten by my father, uncles and older brothers for weeks. Finally, I was forced out of my house and disowned. But I have never regreted my decision and the Spirit has blessed me with great spiritual experiences.

    I still have many protestant Christian friends and associates but none of them take my church or its beliefs seriously. We usually just don’t bring the subject up anymore.

    Thank you for your missionary service.

    Sincerely,

    Minjae Lee

    P.S. Sorry to use this forum as a chat site.

19. MinJae Lee brings up some salient points in which I am compelled to chime from my perspective as an evangelical missionary to LDS.

    First, many Evangelicals do in fact make the mistake of telling LDS what they personally believe. When this occurs, especially in error, it naturally leads to doubt and distrust. Rather, I teach Evangelicals to share their understanding of LDS doctrine from the perspective of LDS Scripture and the teachings of LDS General Authorities. Given the right motives and Christ-like behaviors, it then becomes much more fertile ground for ferreting out any apparent disparities.

    Second, many Evangelicals do in fact misrepresent the teachings of the LDS church and/or General Authorities. This, too, is understandably intolerable in the minds of LDS, especially when Evangelicals have little or no desire to gain more accurate knowledge through open-minded dialog and investigation with LDS. To the best of my ability I try to address and correct these shortcomings among Evangelicals. On the other hand, LDS would do well to give grace to Evangelicals when we make honest mistakes and not judge us by our closed-minded and vitriolic counterparts. The key on both sides of the issue is a humble and teachable spirit; when we lack humility our spiritual fruit dies on the vine.

    Finally, and this will not sit well with some LDS readers, my experience in the mission field is that there exists a considerable variance of opinion among lay LDS in particular on core gospel doctrine (some are in line with the LDS church, others are not). It is the refreshing exception when the latter examine the quotes of LDS General Authorities with me with hopes of closing this gap; it is disconcerting, however, when many LDS reflexively label my use of these quotes as being taken out of context and/or not having the necessary authority to clarify core LDS gospel doctrine.

    In conclusion, closed-mindedness cuts both ways among Evangelicals and LDS. The question is: How willing are we to allow the Spirit to slice and dice the “heart issues” that ultimately hinder our relationship with the Son and thus the Father?

20. Minjae, welcome to this blog. I would like to visit South Korea some day. And I pray for the persecuted in North Korea.

    And Mike has some good thoughts for our mission field.

21. Todd, I think Minjae is in SOUTH Korea, not North.

    But I certainly agree that the North Koreans could use a few good prayers.

22. Mike,

    You sound very sincere and I think you have a clear understanding of the problems that come up when “creedal Christians” and “LDS Christians” try to have dialogue. As I said, were I nearby, I would definitely come to listen to your presentation. I really do long to have in-depth discussions with other Christians without the burden of one side trying to convert the other.

    Todd,

    Thank you for making me welcome and hosting this forum. I think you would find the Christian community in South Korea very interesting. I have been in China to the border with North Korea along the Yalu and Tumen Rivers and dealt with refugees there from the North. The conditions are unimaginable. Far worse than I had expected – and what I expected was very bad. I pray for the collapse of that Government and the freedom of my brothers and sisters living in that hell. Many Christian communities are helping but it is very difficult as the Chinese government is not very helpful either.

    Bless you all – may we remain committed to God’s work and glory.