Obama – “We need fundamental change!”

Did you all catch that last night at the end of the Presidential debate?

I am telling you . . . this guy is a Democratic fundamentalist.  😉 

Of course, I am saying the same thing about religion in the I-15 Corridor.

We need fundamental change.

I don’t get too excited over political fundamentals, but I do over Christian biblical fundamentals.


  1. Todd,

    Wow! I didn’t take time to read through all 95, but did you come up with all of those?

    I humbly believe it all boils down to the fundamental question as to whether or not the LDS church is the true and living church that is lead and directed by Jesus Christ himself or not?

    How can anyone know for sure? A favorite scripture comes to mind — Matthew 16:17. It is impossible to rely on intellect and the arm of the flesh.

    If the LDS theology is of man, then it’s possible they will listen and “rethink the foundational undergirdings that hold up the well-oiled, seasoned superstructure”, otherwise, the proposals will have to made to the higher authority.

    We must remember that while the teachings and doctrine of the LDS are of the Savior, God does not and will not take away man’s agency to choose for himself. And so this world (including the I-15 Corridor) is full of imperfect people at different places along the straight and narrow path. Sadly many will be lost and not make it to the prize. At General Conference there was a message of the need to have greater unity and to build a Zion attitude so that there is no poor among us. There will be those that will make the necessary changes and those that will not because they are unwilling to let go of the things of the world.

    It is a bold claim and often considered blasphemous and arrogant that the LDS church is the only authorized and living church on the face of the earth. Here’s a few recent conference talks on this subject:

    President Gordon B. Hinckley, “The Marvelous Foundation of Our Faith”, http://www.lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-315-24,00.html

    Elder L. Tom Perry, “The Message of the Restoration”

  2. Rob,

    A better couple of Scriptures on determining the truth are:

    for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, showing by the Scriptures that the Christ was Jesus. (Acts 18:28)

    And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. (Luke 24:27)

    Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. (Acts 17:11)

    We are never told to pray if a book that purports to be another testament of Christ is true, or if a particular church is true, or if Joseph Smith was a prophet. We are told to search the Scriptures to see if these things be true. That does not discount the spiritual witness when God’s sheep read His Word, but first and foremost the standard for truth is the Bible. If what someone says opposes the Biblical record, than Christians are obligated to reject that teaching and contend for the truth.

  3. Good thing that the Book of Mormon is consistent with the Bible, eh Arthur?

    Actually the famous Moroni 10 “promise” requires an informed read of the scriptures and diligent study before praying for personal confirmation of the truth of the Book of Mormon. Everyone forgets to read those verses that precede the famous “promise” apparently.

    Nothing about the Mormon witness is meant to be uninformed. This isn’t just about praying for “warm fuzzies,” but rather about real hard work. You don’t get the testimony without putting in the legwork.

  4. But you don’t learn mormonism from the book of mormon. It is just a poorly thought out book that uses Bible language. Mormon doctrine as taught historically and currently contradicts the Bible and in some places contradicts the BoM.

    If you actually dillligently search the scriptures, you don’t need to pray about the book of mormon because you will immediately see that mormonism contradicts the Bible.

  5. Hmm…

    Does “mormonism” contradict the Bible by intellectual judgment of the world?

    How are we supposed to judge to know if something is true or false? “Beware of false prophets…ye shall know them by their fruits” (Matt 7:15-20)

    How many times did Jesus speak about the people not understanding — even his Apostles did not completely understand His doctrine at times… (Matt 13:13-15, Matt 15:10-17, Mark 8:17-21, Luke 24:25, etc.) How many times throughout the scriptures did the people of Old Testament not understand the ways of God?

    Anyone who relies on their own understanding or the arm of the flesh — will fall. We must receive the witness of the Holy Ghost personally (i.e. personal revelation) to teach us all things and open our eyes of understanding.

    Does mormonism really contract the Bible? Or does it really just contradict man’s understanding of the Bible?

    Why have there been so many “interpretations” and contentions regarding the doctrine of Christ in the Bible? Not just today, but even in times past. Dare we say that it is because these interpretations are really just the understanding of man? I can interpret a passage completely differently or even slightly differently than someone else — so which one if either is true? How does one know?

    As stated by Seth — the promise of the Book of Mormon teaches us how to receive the witness of the Holy Ghost to know what it true…sincere heart, real desire, having faith…this is the formula for receiving revelation not just for the Book of Mormon but for any questions we have. It is the same formula taught by the Bible “if any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God”, “ask and you shall receive, knock and it shall be opened unto you”…

    How many times have I have been wrong about someone or something because I didn’t know the whole situation or didn’t completely understand the problem? As humans we do this all the time to each other. If we do not watch ourselves, we do the same thing to God. We assume we know who He is and how He works based on the little understanding or glimpse that we have been given so far in our years of mortality.

    Why do the scriptures talk about the mysteries of God? They are only available to those who sincerely seek God and His understanding.

    Now contention is not where I want to go with this — we all know who that comes from and it just causes more confusion and drives away the Holy Ghost. People will probably argue the same things that have been said over and over again about Joseph Smith and the early leaders of the LDS Church — however, I ask humbly, are those statements of man or of God? That is the question upon which “mormonism” hangs. As the late President Gordon B. Hinckley said a few times “..it’s either true or its false. If it’s false, we’re engaged in a great fraud. If it’s true, it’s the most important thing in the world.” How do we know if its true or false? Do we ask a man or ask God?

    I do not trust in the man Joseph Smith, Gordon B. Hinckley, Thomas S. Monson, or any other past or current leader of the Church as a man — I do trust in the witness of the Holy Ghost that bears witness to my soul of their callings a chosen prophets, seers, revelators, and leaders in these latter days. I have a great desire to know the things of God even as Nephi did (1 Nephi 2:16, 10:17) and I humbly seek daily to know the will of God in my life, to understand His ways, and receive that personal revelation that is available to each one of us if we will but follow the formula in Moroni 10.

  6. You all got off topic rather quickly no? Remember this fellas… The Legal definition for “Fundamental” is not what you all are arguing. “Fundamental” is a legal term and it directs Law minded peoples back to the fact that he is ONLY suggesting an altering to the Declaration of Independence OR the organic Constitution.

    Once you all figure out that you have no rights, none that are in our original constitution that was scrapped after the 14th and 16th amendments turning us from Sovereign Citizens into Legal PERSONS… Me being a Baptist puts me at religious odds with most of you. SO WHAT?

    Our forefathers gave us this land with their spilt blood. We freed the slaves and then became slaves ourselves. When the hour and day arrives to take back this land remember this; yeah, we have major issues and major disagreements each one of us… But we are (were) Americans guys… Not from within… We fight hand in hand and take back our right to openly debate and disagree about a whole host of things… But first things first…


  7. Oh, so to answer your silly statement about “fundamental change”, what part of the constitution that we are no longer living under (we live under maritime Law or UCC)… Like that Fraud that they have been lying to us all about?

    You see, you know nothing about common law. Thats supposed to be our legal system. Under that law you all might have a better life. But it would go back to the Bible that was untouched by Smith and the one he got off of that guy at the bar… But like I said, lets get our rights back and then you can slug me for being a prick… Fair?

  8. You don’t get too excited over political fundamentals? When the President supports gay marriage & abortion, that VIOLATES biblical fundamentals. Respectfully, get a clue.

  9. forusradio, that is an interesting sentence – “Respectfully, get a clue.”
    Question for you:

    Would you be excited over a Muslim President of the United States who stood strongly against gay marriage?

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