Listen Up Religious Apostates!

  1. You use to love God.
  2. You have forgotten God.
  3. You now have forsaken God for vanity.
  4. You lust after the desires of your own heart.
  5. You now teach the wicked how to be even more evil.

(Isn’t this what Yahweh is saying through the mouth of Jeremiah in chapter 2?)

19 comments

  1. When I was a very young kid, sitting in primary (and that was back in the day, when primary was on a weekday…Tuesday? So I must have been a *really* young kid) I sat singing a song, and looked around me, and I wondered, ‘does anyone really believe this nonsense?

    I decided, around that time, that:

    1. God, if he exists at all, is irrelevant.
    2. Adults, when they bear (or bare?) their testimonies, are liars, since they can’t produce God and don’t *know* anything is true.
    3. This is the only life I am sure I will ever know, so I need to enjoy it.

    At age 18, I got threatened with excommunication, and actively encouraged the process by refusing to answer the sexually tinged questions of the pervert behind the bishop’s desk. It was during my ‘trial’ that I decided the next ones:

    4. If the church was ‘true’, these idiots wouldn’t be in charge, ergo it’s crap.
    5. Whether the spiritual aspects are ‘true’ or not, they are not very ‘useful’. If this is what the church is really all about, then I don’t want to ever be an active part of it again.

    My life has been a thousand times better, in a thousand different ways, since leaving. I don’t regret it for a second, and I’m sure I never will.

  2. Over 2500 years ago the question is asked . . . so I ask it again to you.

    What are you exchanging God for in your life to make it a thousand times better?

  3. You’re my age, exactly. You grew up in Idaho Falls, I grew up in St. George. On opposite edges of Deseret, but about the same size, same attitudes. I think we can respect one another, or at least understand one another, so I’ll give it to you honestly.

    The Sumerians had a storm god named Ea-ue. You worship him today (you spell his name a bit differently, but it sounds pretty much the same).

    I exchanged devotion to a church, full of self-serving and manipulative human beings to a search for integrity. If that doesn’t answer your question sufficiently, nothing will.

  4. Opposite ends of the I-15 Corridor . . . same size . . . same attitudes, but you guys bask in the warm sun while we ski.

    First, you gotta love the snow up here.

    Secondly, Yahweh is the God of war. Isaiah asks, “Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?

    God answers, “I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.”

    But Yahweh is much, much more . . . a thousand ways more . . . if in your search for integrity, you genuinely describe this God.

    Right?

  5. Dear Todd/Elan,

    That’s O.K., after Utah I lived in Calgary for a while. I ended up envying the folks in Idaho Falls after my first winter weekend.

    Before I answer your question, you’ve got to realize that any argument you could possibly use to debunk Mormon mythology is perfectly appropriate to turn around and use on Christianity (or Judaism, Islam, whathaveyou). You do understand that, right?

    I honestly don’t have any use for the Sumerian storm-dragon who was blamed for flooding the Tigris and Euphrates. The people who dreamt him up knew he was a literary character. It was later that a priest class evolved, composed of the most convincing liars of their day, to grow rich off the nightmares of the people.

    http://revnost.blogspot.com/2008/07/great-whore-pt-2.html

    There’s an old (and poorly written) explanation if you want more detail. I don’t use that blog any more so I apologize if you want to comment.

  6. So basically, you had a snotty teenage experience with the standard issue authority and rebellion issues, used that as an ideological launching point, and now you’d like a cookie.

    Sorry, I’m fresh out Gregoire.

  7. Dear Seth,

    “So, basically” someone wrote a rather condescending article, inviting religious apostates to reply. I replied. Did I do something wrong? If so, either Todd was being deceptive or you’ve misjudged the situation.

    It is nice to see the *loving* nature of Christianity on display so transparently though. How does the Sumerian storm dragon turn into the “god of war”, and subsequently become the “prince of peace”, and which do you really worship?

  8. Todd’s an Evangelical, not a Mormon. This is an Evangelical blog devoted to witnessing to Mormons.

    You want a nice response from me?

    Try not barging into a blog for the first time flinging around undirected anger at a religion and calling people “perverts” and “idiots.”

    As it so happens, I’m feeling a bit more Old Testament today, and I’m tired of putting up with crap from people who think they deserve a medal just because their bishop quoted a few passages from “The Miracle of Forgiveness” to them.

  9. Basically, it’s your first post that I was responding to.

    Your other comments are more or less fine. Don’t agree with them, but they’re OK. If they hadn’t been preceded by the first post, I probably wouldn’t have jumped on you.

  10. Here’s another list, just for you Seth:

    1. I knew Todd was an evangelical from the beginning. Thanks for pointing it out though.

    2. “pervert” and “idiot” aren’t insults. They’re accurate adjectives to describe adults (non-parental) who ask for details about a teenager’s sexual life in a closed room.

    3. I’ve never been angry, and framed by your ‘feeling old testament’ euphemism, your references to such are as identifiable as so much displacement.

    4. Nobody wants a medal. By waking up to reality I didn’t do anything that millions upon millions of other people did before I did.

    It really doesn’t take much to leave God behind. Did you feel especially courageous or ‘special’ when you realized that Bigfoot didn’t exist, or when you expressed your skepticism at stories of extraterrestrial space aliens who abduct old ladies and return them safely to earth in the dark of night? How about Santa Claus? It’s the same concept.

    Hope this helps,

    G

  11. “O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.” (2 Nephi 9:8)

  12. Dear Rob,

    In other words, your god wants us all to quit freely reading, thinking and asking questions. As a reward, he’ll let us all into the celestial kingdom. Do I have that right?

    Wisdom is foolishness. Sounds like George Orwell in 1984. Anyway: Why stop there? I mean, why go to work every day? Why have a family? Why go to church? Why wear clothes? If we’re going to do away with some vestiges of modernity it seems like we’d be even better off abolishing all of them.

    I suppose the mythic ideal of Mormonism and Christianity contains a life where we all just live in the woods, without any higher thought at all, living like animals.

  13. This is the truth.

    To someone who has a testimony, nothing will convince them short of the Prophet committing an act of unspeakable evil.

    And, if you haven’t seen that in the last two years, then you never will.

    You speak of vanity, and yet you ignore the actions of thine own leaders in the side of evil.

    When a man puts more faith in a man than Christ, you know you have lost the way.

    When that man can do anything and get away with it, you know that man has too much power over your spiritual well being. Not even Moses or Peter or any other man has ever had the spiritual ‘authority’ over the souls of others claimed by the First Presidency.

    Of course, you will ignore this. For if you have not yet seen the truth, you never will. God does not reward willful ignorance.

  14. Grégoire,

    Are you happy? You sound more angry than happy.

    You blog site says that your life has “settled into a mundane and enjoyable boredom”. Wow. Do you look forward to anything? Do you have a hope for the future?

    I do plenty of reading, studying, and asking of many questions. The scriptures are full of verses telling us to seek learning, the problem comes when we think we know it all and are unwilling to be taught by Lord through the Spirit.

    This week we were studying about Mormon as a boy in the Book of Mormon and the great wickedness that surrounded him. The people had hardened their hearts against God and were past feeling to the point that the Spirit of the Lord was withdrawn from them. Without realizing it, they were enslaved by the devil. They were consumed by the senses and desires of the flesh, being tossed to and fro, and unable to be happy. (Mormon 1:13-19, 2:10-15, Moroni 9:20)

    If we take a minute to look around us, you will see many striking resemblances that exist in the world today.

  15. Mystic55,

    My testimony is not in a man, the arm of the flesh. My testimony is in the witness of the Spirit that testifies to my spirit. I strive to follow the counsel of a living prophet today, Thomas S. Monson, because the Spirit has witnessed to me that he is a true prophet.

    Is your judgment based on seeing with your natural eyes, or your spiritual eyes? We must be very careful or we will perish.

  16. Dear Rob,

    Are you happy? You sound more angry than happy.

    You blog site says that your life has “settled into a mundane and enjoyable boredom”. Wow. Do you look forward to anything? Do you have a hope for the future?

    It’s always amusing to see true believers get personal with those who don’t agree with them. To the more discerning readers, your response is just more compelling evidence to suggest that neither Christianity nor Mormonism makes one a better person.

    I do plenty of reading, studying, and asking of many questions. The scriptures are full of verses telling us to seek learning, the problem comes when we think we know it all and are unwilling to be taught by Lord through the Spirit.

    You began this response with a claimed commitment to reading and study, and ended it by admitting that in order to make decisions, you trust your “feelings” which you imagine are more important.

    This week we were studying about Mormon as a boy in the Book of Mormon and the great wickedness that surrounded him. The people had hardened their hearts against God and were past feeling to the point that the Spirit of the Lord was withdrawn from them. Without realizing it, they were enslaved by the devil. They were consumed by the senses and desires of the flesh, being tossed to and fro, and unable to be happy. (Mormon 1:13-19, 2:10-15, Moroni 9:20)

    If we take a minute to look around us, you will see many striking resemblances that exist in the world today.

    I prayed very sincerely, and got a burning in the bosom that told me that there was no God, no devil, no angels, no spooks, spirits nor halowe’en goblins. Just me, on this earth, the only world I will ever know.

    Forget about all this nonsense, Rob. Enjoy your life and think for yourself.

  17. “Yea, and there shall be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die; and it shall be well with us. ” (2 Nephi 28:7)

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