I think it is very interesting how external religion in the I-15 corridor makes a big mess of people.
thinking of heart issues . . .
Is it the Mormonism making a mess of people Todd? Or is it the attacks on it?
OK… I read Colson’s article… Here’s the entirety of the article:
“Christians are commanded to always work for unity. But orthodoxy and apostasy cannot co-exist. Regrettably, I believe Christians have no choice but to separate from an increasingly apostate denomination.”
That’s it? Where’s the rest?
Is there a point to this statement?
I’m with Seth…..is there an ARTICLE to be read, and how do we get to it ??
Guys, I’m back. Many busy days.
My mind is on two tracks that I think are closely related.
1. Colson gives a three sentence post on apostasy. Which denomination did Joseph Smith strive to maintain unity with before he finally broke free considering them apostate? A question for the LDS Prophet and Apostles: Are all religious groups outside the LDS Church on an equal plane of apostate status?
2. Considering Ray’s post and your question, Seth, I believe that when Catholics, Baptists, and Mormons teach moralism, people get screwed up big time. They get mad. And then they reject the system of “Christianity”. They became atheists or agnostics. But they don’t realize that what they are rejecting is not even remotely genuine Gospel Christianity.
There is indeed a heresy called “moralism”, but I don’t think that is what Chuck has in mind. I think he is thinking primarily about what is currently going on in The Episcopal Church and other “mainline” Protestant demoninations with regard to homosexuality and related issues.
Indeed, some might accuse Chuck Colson of exactly the same “moralism” in his focus on homosexuality and such.
By the way Todd, “The Prodigal God” just came into our library last Friday and I’m halfway through it.
I think Keller is a bit unduly harsh on the “elder brothers” so far, but we’ll see where the rest of the book goes.
You are probably right, Greg.
Seth, thanks for jumping into this book. I want to hear all your thoughts on this.
My wicked sin is that of the elder brother.
So thankful for the gospel.
In my experiences with God this weekend, I feel like I have been reborn. So happy today. I am forgiven. And I must tell everyone.
I’ll have what he’s (Todd Wood) having….wow….
Thanks for sharing that, Todd. I’m with you on that “elder brother” thing (although there have been times in my life that I have managed to combine the worst elements of BOTH brothers). Humility is the answer, and I sure don’t come by THAT naturally.
Jesus, of course, directs his harshest comments at the “elder brother” types in the Gospels (the story of the Prodigal Son is one of the more mild examples), and the reason is that when we get into this mode, we forget, as apparently the Pharisees did, that we too are in need of forgiveness and the sort of radical psychospiritual transformation that we simply cannot give ourselves, transformation that is only available through union with Christ via the Holy Spirit. The Apostolic Church, of course, is the Community established by Christ where the Holy Spirit normally accomplishes this over a lifetime; or rather, over a lifetime and beyond. Sanctification never ends. But, at the same time, Pharisees CAN be brought to repentance. Just look at St. Paul.
“Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.”
Jesus in Idaho Falls 
Ray asks a heart issue question over here:
http://mormonmatters.org/2009/01/28/why-is-it-so-hard-for-ex-mormons-to-join-another-christian-denomination/
I think it is very interesting how external religion in the I-15 corridor makes a big mess of people.
thinking of heart issues . . .
Is it the Mormonism making a mess of people Todd? Or is it the attacks on it?
OK… I read Colson’s article… Here’s the entirety of the article:
“Christians are commanded to always work for unity. But orthodoxy and apostasy cannot co-exist. Regrettably, I believe Christians have no choice but to separate from an increasingly apostate denomination.”
That’s it? Where’s the rest?
Is there a point to this statement?
I’m with Seth…..is there an ARTICLE to be read, and how do we get to it ??
Guys, I’m back. Many busy days.
My mind is on two tracks that I think are closely related.
1. Colson gives a three sentence post on apostasy. Which denomination did Joseph Smith strive to maintain unity with before he finally broke free considering them apostate? A question for the LDS Prophet and Apostles: Are all religious groups outside the LDS Church on an equal plane of apostate status?
2. Considering Ray’s post and your question, Seth, I believe that when Catholics, Baptists, and Mormons teach moralism, people get screwed up big time. They get mad. And then they reject the system of “Christianity”. They became atheists or agnostics. But they don’t realize that what they are rejecting is not even remotely genuine Gospel Christianity.
There is indeed a heresy called “moralism”, but I don’t think that is what Chuck has in mind. I think he is thinking primarily about what is currently going on in The Episcopal Church and other “mainline” Protestant demoninations with regard to homosexuality and related issues.
Indeed, some might accuse Chuck Colson of exactly the same “moralism” in his focus on homosexuality and such.
By the way Todd, “The Prodigal God” just came into our library last Friday and I’m halfway through it.
I think Keller is a bit unduly harsh on the “elder brothers” so far, but we’ll see where the rest of the book goes.
You are probably right, Greg.
Seth, thanks for jumping into this book. I want to hear all your thoughts on this.
My wicked sin is that of the elder brother.
So thankful for the gospel.
In my experiences with God this weekend, I feel like I have been reborn. So happy today. I am forgiven. And I must tell everyone.
I’ll have what he’s (Todd Wood) having….wow….
Thanks for sharing that, Todd. I’m with you on that “elder brother” thing (although there have been times in my life that I have managed to combine the worst elements of BOTH brothers). Humility is the answer, and I sure don’t come by THAT naturally.
Jesus, of course, directs his harshest comments at the “elder brother” types in the Gospels (the story of the Prodigal Son is one of the more mild examples), and the reason is that when we get into this mode, we forget, as apparently the Pharisees did, that we too are in need of forgiveness and the sort of radical psychospiritual transformation that we simply cannot give ourselves, transformation that is only available through union with Christ via the Holy Spirit. The Apostolic Church, of course, is the Community established by Christ where the Holy Spirit normally accomplishes this over a lifetime; or rather, over a lifetime and beyond. Sanctification never ends. But, at the same time, Pharisees CAN be brought to repentance. Just look at St. Paul.
“Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.”