Dave in JH is pumping you for Darwin Week

Some Christians are enemies to science but not LDS BYU, claims Dave at BeliefNet, who has been posting some humdingers lately.

On Sunday, February 15, our church family in Idaho Falls is hosting a day of “Celebrating the Creator”.  More details later.

But with all the festivities why don’t all the LDS bishops in town follow suit with BYU and host a “Darwin Sunday”.  Some are pushing for this.  Why not LDS bishops?


  1. I’m pretty sure that Sunday’s are reserved for spiritual matters, or at least when it’s not necessarily a spiritual matter, it’s a teaching of the prophets. (i.e. Food storage)

    I haven’t seen any teachings of the prophets or anything scriptural dealing with Darwin or evolution. BYU is an educational institution.

    Just my thoughts.

  2. Secular Darwinians (this doesn’t include Dave) NEVER tire of telling all who dare question there theory how “against science” they are. Yeah right…..tell that to Michael Behe and William Dembski. Nice convenient stereotype, and there are many dull pastors who will just (unwittingly) add fuel to this fire.

    Wonder what Blaise Pascal or Gregor Mendel would have thought of this “religion, the enemy of science….” schtick ??

  3. “…how “against science” they are. Yeah right…..tell that to Michael Behe and William Dembski.”

    Just thought I’d point out that scientists and non-scientists alike frequently say as much about Behe and Dembski.

  4. BrianJ; yes, I’m hip with that, but most of the time when I hear or read those things , they are spoken as cliche’s hanging in the air, spoken by the Eugenie Scott’s of the world who are hoping if they repeat something often enough, it will be accepted at face value….. I’d be VERY surprised if there were a scientist who spent an hour or two debating M.Behe who could later say with an honest face: that man is against science. these are buzz words spouted most often for the “faithful”: those with an unexamined Darwinian philosphic mateirialism to defend.

  5. Brian, I wish I could bring you over from the East for our “Celebration of the Creator” on Sunday, February 15. For that matter, Dave B., from JH needs to drive over the Teton Pass and join us for the day.

    We will have 8 speakers from our church family lined up for our day of worship on the Lord’s Day. (I will try to post soon on HI4LDS more details of our speakers.)


  6. Doesn’t sound like Dave Banack knows very much about other Christianities. Protology for non-LDS Christians is all over the place. Some of it is against the scientific current on the theory of evolution and some of it isn’t.

    “Christian students who are serious about academics as well as their religion really ought to consider BYU.”

    Ha. Ha. Ha. Because BYU offers such in-depth coverage of non-LDS Christianities.

  7. But doncha know Jack –

    Mormons ARE Christians. In fact we’re practically interchangeable with right wing Southern Baptists. You won’t even notice the difference. Honest!

    Here, let me phone the missionaries for you…

  8. BridgetJM: point well taken….and not only are there christians who hold to macro-evolution, there are also a WIDE variety of intelligent design positions, some held by brilliant agnostics like David Berlinski, who ironically enough, tends to get labelled “creationist”. As a non-practicing secular Jew, he gets a big kick out of that……

    those interested in Berlinski should check out his essay “The Deniable Darwin” If brilliant mathmatician/theory of information guys masquarading as non-scientists is your thing…..that is…….

  9. Seth, you’re a brat.

    germit, truth be told I am terrible at science and have only vaguely studied the different protologies. That B I got in Biology 100H at BYU 5 years ago was the hardest B I’ve ever had to work for. So, I don’t really keep up on David Berlinski, Michael Behe and the whole evolution-creation debate.

    BUT I do know enough about Mormon and other Christian protology to know Mormons aren’t the only ones who can accept theistic evolution. I can’t imagine every Christian college out there is hostile to evolution.

  10. Bridget; yes, christians are really all over the board on this, although the great majority of ev. christians lean toward some kind of creationism and/or intelligent design. I am just an interested observer, with more of a social science background myself, so those who want to label me “dabbler”……guilty as charged, but even “dabblers” can be heard in this arena (see “Ben Stein” or “Nancy Percey”) and make a splash.

    to be understood: I’m NOT saying that christians are all ID or creationist….far from it……but these positions can and are held by people who are VERY credentialed, and yes, published….. heaven help us, Henry Morres (now deceased, I think) had 4 or 5 advanced degrees….and I could go on….. the “against science” thing is pure bull, and really should be read “they are against [my brand of] science” or even “they are against [my particular take on] science”

    check out Steins “Expelled” if you get a chance….


    PS: are you SURE Seth is a brat ????

  11. check out Steins “Expelled” if you get a chance….

    Is that the documentary? Or is there a book the documentary is based on?

    are you SURE Seth is a brat ????

    Among many other things.

    But he’s not “obviously contentious” like I am, so I think I may have finally one-upped him.

  12. I meant the movie, but it’ll be interesting to see what Ben might write in reaction to the movie…

    a side note: I don’t have a stat on this , but an increasing number of colleges are teaching some kind of “showcase the scientific merits of BOTH models” class, at least for underclassmen. From what I understand, they’ve been pretty well received, by the students……set-in-stone faculty , of course, are stewing in their primordial ooze.

    this will be interesting to follow in the years to come…..I’m predicting more and more Berlinski types, whose only dog in the race is seeing an origins model that accounts for reality, particularly genetic complexity.

  13. Bridget: this is off topic, hope the mods don’t mind too much , but I’ve had a chance to read a lttle of your background and situation…..here’s a GERMIT-o-mercial

    do your soul a favor and check out internetmonk, blog by Michael Spencer…..raised southern baptist….his wife converted (in the last year, I think) to Roman Catholicism
    how they work out that interfaith thing is humbling and fascinating

    here’s a taste from today’s i-monk, but check it out yourself: you and Michael are both very gifted writers, keep at it…

    17. I believe evangelicals have a fetish of wanting preachers to know everything and to tell them what to do. In fact, when the Washington Post said, years ago, that evangelicals were “…easily led,” they were more right than wrong. I’m not into the Roman Catholic view of church authority, but among what group of Christians are you more likely to be told during the sermon what to think about politics, economics, child-raising, science, psychology, literature, entertainment and education? Who’s more likely to have a series of 300 Life Principles that tell you everything including where to buy your vitamins? Yeah, that’s right. Everyone say “Baaa.”

    this habit of wanting ONE GUY, ONE GROUP to have it all figured out is pernicious and evil….. and not limited to any one ——fill in the blank——

    Blessings on you and yours

    PS: lost my favorite brother in law to pancreatic cancer about three years ago, Skip was 59, and my wife and I still miss him

  14. Germit,

    Thanks for the kind words. I will keep an eye on Michael Spencer’s blog, though I can’t imagine that a Catholic-evangelical (or post-evangelical) marriage is as difficult to work out as a Protestant-Mormon marriage.

    Yeah, pancreatic cancer sucks. This last month has been better for me than all the other months since her death though, so hopefully things are looking up.

  15. Bridget: you are probably right about the size of the divide, but the parallels between LDS and Roman Catholicism are very strong, hence some of the similarity. One obvious difference is that the Spencers SHARED a common faith for many years, and THEN split (separate churches, not ‘split’ as in divorce), so you don’t have that in common.

    topically, you might start with the archive dealing with “the one true church” I don’t remember the exact title. Nothing explicitly LDS, but as I said….the RC parallels are many….

    Spencer treats EVERYONE with tons of respect, including and expecially Roman Catholics….who often blog with him.

    the shalom of GOD stay with you

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