Tim provides a visual of the Trinity.
In our neck of the woods, Jesus is taught as a lower divine being in submission to God. In our church family’s current study of I Corinthians 15, one verse stands out particularly in regards to this issue:
Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all (I Cor. 15:28).
But this does not mean that the second person of the Trinity is not equal with the first person of the Trinity.
The orthodox teaching of the Trinity is indeed non-negotiable. Anything less is not Christianity. The Lloyd-Jones quote on the graphic bears this out.
Further, each Divine Person is “in” the others, such that all are “members one of another”, as St. Paul writes concerning those who are “members of Christ” via His “body, the Church”.
The Most Blessed Trinity is the eternal, archetypal Community which has created humanity in the Divine Image and Likeness.
(The orthodox teaching of the Trinity is indeed non-negotiable)
Yet it took a bunch of men, who fought down other men who could not agree with this definition, to force this definition to be added to God’s word.
@Fred, I’m still waiting for the date the “great apostasy” happened. Put a date on it, and tell me why I should worship a God who needs preexistent materials to create, and why I should worship a God who’s church disappears, and why I should worship a God who is confined to space and time.
You are also ignoring the work of the Holy Spirit in Christ’s church, which is why the idea of “a bunch of men who could not agree” instituting this “top-down” is simply inaccurate. You are also ignoring the principle of lay-consent, in other words, what was decided in the first two councils was received by Christians everywhere, not just leaders meeting in councils, but also local congregations. So unless you think the Holy Spirit left the church for 1500 years (and if so, what date did this happen?), to ignore the classical teaching of the Trinity is to commit modern chauvinism.
(I’m still waiting for the date the “great apostasy” happened)
And there are a whole group of people waiting for Christ to come to the earth for the first time.
So what if you missed it. Take the definition of the Trinity out of God’s word and you will find that many of the “truths” you sited are not in His Word. You will also find many things that this manmade definition has caused to be removed from God’s Word.
PS. What is the difference between “modern chauvinism” and old time chauvinism? You see, a long time ago, when I was still a Protestant; I was a “Male Chauvinist Pig”. Then a bunch of people got together and added more to the definition and it was no longer a good thing. Kind-a-like a bunch of people got together and changed the meaning of God’s Word.
I’m asking you to identify it, since you obviously believe it happened. If it happened, when did it happen? Also, you still aren’t addressing the main issue, which is that Christ said he would build his church and the gates of hell would not prevail against it, and that he would leave the Holy Spirit with his church. Did he lie or was he wrong? You also haven’t addressed the issue of lay consent.
You also haven’t shared why I should worship a god who needs matter to create, who exists within time in space, who has a church that disappears etc…I worship a God who has none of these problems. Why should I worship a smallish god?
The difference between classical Christianity received consensually as opposed to a conspiracy view of history with an extremely low view of the church and the work of the Holy Spirit is pretty obvious. One (modern chauvinism) argues that there is a single enlightened one, who “restores” something that was never lost. This is an inherently arrogant and chauvinistic position. The other is based on the consensual and collegial theology, as based in what has always been taught. Such a view avoids the arrogance of the other, and has a high view of the Holy Spirit and Christ’s church.
Fred, if the “Great Apostacy” happened, then you can forget about the Bible, forget about the faith, forget about everything.
There is nothing to restore. If the “Great Apostacy happened, then Jesus lied. It’s as simple as that.
So, make your choice. It’s either the historic Orthodox-Catholic Church founded by Christ Himself, or it is nothing.
Here is a good choice, Fred. When you are in Idaho Falls, just come visit Berean Baptist Chruch . . . a wonderful little church family in town.
And Greg, Trimelda McDaniels tells me that you are her Godson.
So the two of you finally met…
2 Thessalonians 2:3
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Except there come a falling away first – We have the original word αποστασια in our word apostasy; and by this term we understand a dereliction of the essential principles of religious truth – either a total abandonment of Christianity itself, or such a corruption of its doctrines as renders the whole system completely inefficient to salvation.
The almost true teachings of the many churches; that Heavenly Father is now correcting; is the corruption causing the apostasy spoken of by Paul.
Fred, the context of the above is the return of Christ “who shall come again in glory to judge and living and the dead and whose kingdom shall have no end” in the words of the Church’s “Rule of Faith”.
Yes, there will be, and possibly already is, a massive falling away, in which “the love of many will grow cold”. However, it will not be complete. The Church Christ founded will not completely disappear, nor can it. If it were to do so, then again, Jesus lied.
Further, “the man of sin, the son of perdition” has not yet been revealed. This passage concerns the very end of history, and what follows is the Second Coming of the Lord, not some “restoration” and certainly not a “restoration” of things that never were in the Church to begin with.